WARNING: This proposal contains graphic depictions of rape and murder that readers may find upsetting, so please read at your own risk. Thank you.
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"Mature Content Warning!" |
Who have we got to deal with today? A sadistic suitor who plans on raping a woman and killing her son, a spiteful sea god who harbors a burning hatred against Odysseus for blinding his son but not killing him, and a giant cyclops who sought to kill hundreds of men over the death of one of his sheep. What a truly terrible trio.
| “ | ♪ Hold him down, till the boy stops shaking. ♪ ♪ Hold him down, while I slit his throat. ♪ ♪ Hold him down, while I slowly break his pride, his trust, his faith and his BONES! ♪ |
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| ~ Sheesh, talk about aggressive sadism. Really, the only good thing about Antinous is his singing voice, but other than that...zilch. |
| “ | I'm left without a choice, and without a doubt. Guess the pack of wolves is swimming with the shark now. I've gotta make you bleed, I need to see you drown, but before you go, I need to make you learn how ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves! | „ |
| ~ Poseidon, you're truly ruthless indeed, huh? |
| “ | You’ve hurt me enough! Six hundred lives I'll take, six hundred lives I'll break, and when I kill you, then my pain is over. You're dying here and now, escape is not allowed, you won’t live through this day now die, die... | „ |
| ~ And Polyphemus here is throwing a dangerous fit over the death of ONE of his many sheep. Such a psychopathic manchild. |
Permission to propose Antinous was granted by Star of the Universe.
Alright, guys. It's finally time to bring some EPIC: The Musical villains to the table for a discussion. Last month in September, I made a post on this wiki following my return about the concept album (the songs are stuck in my head, so maybe I have Epic syndrome?) and whether or not it had any potential candidates. Earlier this year in May, I remember Duckw545 suggesting Antinous as a PP, but the character was later blacklisted for having the personality, but not the stupid feats. However, having re-listened to the sick bastard's songs, I feel he just barely makes the cut, so I decided to get admin permission to make a proper proposal for him. Another character I thought about was Poseidon, and although I originally thought he'd be better off on the Intelligence Scaling Purgatory wiki, I also deemed him another very weak keeper for this wiki instead. However, the easiest qualifier of the musical would have to be Polyphemus, who will be talked about today. Oh, and about Zeus? I decided he doesn't count as compared to Antinous, Poseidon and Polyphemus, he's pretty pathetic (I mean, he literally forced a man to kill a baby and later made him choose between sacrificing himself or his crew before striking his own daughter to near-death just for winning a game), but he ain't quite dumb enough. With that long intro outta the way, let the discussion begin.
What's The Work?[]
EPIC: The Musical is an awesome concept album created by Jorge Rivera-Herrans. It's an adaptation of the classic Ancient Greek poem Odyssey by Homer, and tells the story of a war general named Odysseus (the King of Ithaca) as he tries to return to Troy to reunite with his family after the decade-long Trojan War. However, he goes through a lot of traumatic experiences during his adventure, including multiple encounters with gods, goddesses and monsters who either support him on his journey or hold him back from seeing his wife Penelope and his son Telemachus.
Who Are They?[]
Antinous is the main antagonist of the Ithaca Saga. He is a suitor of Penelope who strives to marry her and become the ruler of Ithaca, even if it means raping her and murdering her and Odysseus's son Telemachus. He is also the latter's archenemy.
Poseidon is the overall main antagonist of the musical, serving as the main villain of both the Ocean Saga and Vengeance Saga. He is the God of Tides, the father of the bloodthirsty cyclops Polyphemus and the arch-nemesis of Odysseus due to having the most personal cruelty towards the poor guy due to killing most of his men and threatening to destroy his kingdom.
Polyphemus is the main antagonist of the Cyclops Saga. He is the son of Poseidon who is bent on killing Odysseus and his crew after his favorite sheep is killed, only to be blinded.
Are They Pathetic?[]
Extremely. They're three of the worst antagonists in the whole musical with hefty rapsheets under their belts. Let's look at them one-by-one and analyse what makes them nasty.
Antinous[]
First up is Antinous of Ithaca. In "Legendary", he gets angry about how the kingdom has gone 20 years without a king before proceeding to sing with the suitors, demanding Penelope to tell them where her husband is. Later, he confronts Telemachus and insults his mother by calling her a tramp behind her back. He then encourages the kid to unlock Penelope's bedroom door so he and the suitors can "have fun with her" (i.e. rape her). Enraged, Telemachus tells Antinous not to call his mother names, but the latter mockingly asks him what he's going to do about it.
Come "Little Wolf" and his dangerous side comes to light. He engages in a fight with Telemachus when the latter vows to defend his mother from the suitors. During the duel, Antinous brutally beats the boy within an inch of his life and brags about how he's going to break every bone in his body, even taunting him over Odysseus's absence to spite him. This allows Athena to help Telemachus stand up for himself and defeat his rival. The fight ends and Antinous comes out on top, to which Telemachus starts crawling away after being battered, with Antinous responding by saying he'll bring "blood and tears" to Ithaca if Penelope doesn't choose a husband soon.
Then, we move on to the darkest and most disturbing song in the musical: "Hold Them Down". After failing to accomplish a challenge for hours on end, Antinous decides to take matters into his own hands. Knowing Telemachus is off on a diplomatic mission and is coming back to Ithaca that day, he suggests to the suitors that they wait on the beach and upon the prince's return, the men will hold him down as Antinous brutally tortures and kills him by slitting his throat, breaking his bones and cutting his body parts into tiny pieces to chuck them into the ocean. He then insists on raping Penelope. Sounds bad enough, right? Well, he also intended to rally the other 107 suitors into sexually assaulting her too, so he planned to lead a 108-men gangrape on Penelope. As he sings about his plans, however, Odysseus returns to the palace and shoots an arrow from his bow at Antinous, killing him instantly and preventing his plans to "hold them down" from coming to fruition.
Poseidon[]
Then, we've got Poseidon on our hands. In "Keep Your Enemies Close", he sends a storm that endangers the lives of Odysseus and his 600 men. Once a bag is opened, he appears before the crew and confronts them in the song "Ruthlessness". He rants about how his pride has been damaged by Ody hurting Polyphemus, before revealing that the aforementioned cyclops is his son. Preventing the crew from escaping, he complains about how Ody fights but doesn't kill people, even mockingly saying that he would've been fine with his son being killed so there wouldn't have been any beef between him and the king of Ithaca. Now furious, he prepares to massacre the crew, but he gives Ody one last chance to apologize for blinding and hurting Polyphemus. When Ody reasons with the god, Poseidon gets royally pissed and drowns 500+ of his men to death all while forcing Ody to watch as a sadistic touch, leaving him devastated with only 43 men left under his command. Right before he can finish the rest of them off, however, Ody opens the bag to get his crewmates to safety while Poseidon says that he's his darkest moment and tells Ody to remember him.
10 years later, we move on to "Get In The Water" where Poseidon reunites with Ody after massacring most of his crew in front of him a decade prior. He muses about how he's got a reputation to uphold and that he can't let Ody roam free or else the world forgets he is cold...before telling Ody to get in the water and kill himself. If he doesn't, Poseidon swears to summon a giant tidal wave that will flood Ithaca and kill everyone in the kingdom before encouraging Ody to sacrifice himself several more times under the threat of drowning his wife and son if he refuses to die. Clarifying that his threats aren't bluffs, he takes it a step further and to be an even crueller dick, he threatens to gouge out Telemachus' eye if Ody doesn't sacrifice his life to ensure that his kingdom and people survive. Knowing neither side is happy, Ody makes an attempt to reach out to the sea god, asking him if he's tired and how long their grudge will last as it's been ten years. He brings up that they're both suffering from personal losses and they should just go home, before asking Poseidon to learn forgiveness. It initially seems to work...until Poseidon goes back to being angry and uses his special move, Shatter the Ocean, to attack Ody and almost kill him...if not for him opening the bag to reach the surface.
His last appearance is "Six Hundred Strike". After Ody survives his near-death experience, he initiates a fight between him and Poseidon while screaming about how he's going to get back to his family and striking the god 600 times as a means to avenge the men he lost a decade ago. Wounded but not dead, Poseidon takes a moment to call Ody out on releasing his storm and blocking his only path home and cruelly tells him that he'll never get back now. Now riled up, Ody demands Poseidon to call off the storm, but he doesn't listen and reminds him that he's an immortal and thus cannot die. This gives Ody an idea: use Poseidon's trident against him and impale him over and over again until he calls off the storm, which reduces the god to a screaming mess who begs for mercy as Ody stabs him repeatedly and throws his ideologies back in his face, causing Poseidon to let out an exasperated "ALRIGHT!" and end the storm. His last words are to ask Ody how he'll sleep at night after everything has done, to which our hero retorts with "Next to my wife". OOH, DAMN! Nice comeback, Ody. Then, Poseidon is never seen again.
Polyphemus[]
Lastly, it's the cyclops boi. Despite not having a lot of resources due to only having a cave, a club and some sheep, he still manages to prove himself as one of the worst villains in the musical. After one of his sheep dies, he vows to kill all 600 men at the beach although not all of them were involved in the death of his favorite sheep. He plans to do this on a high scale too by devouring the men and drinking their blood. Odysseus offers him the world's best-tasting wine (which actually has lotus in it), to which Polyphemus accepts and drinks only to feel the side effects later. Before collapsing, however, he goes as far as to kill the morally best character, Polites, in the musical, which is shown to severely traumatize Ody for the rest of the musical. After Ody blinds him, he tries to get the other cyclopes to wipe out him and his crew, but is ultimately outsmarted by Ody. Eventually, he tells his father Poseidon what happens, making him partially/indirectly responsible for the sea god's actions as he was trying to avenge his son's pain.
What Makes Them Pinheads?[]
They might be pathetic, but they're also pretty stupid. Here are their respective lists of dumb feats:
Antinous[]
- His entire plan is just doomed to fail, since harming Odysseus' wife or son would have dire consequences due to how much he cares for them and is desperate to return to them after the Trojan War. If Antinous had succeeded in killing Telemachus and/or raping Penelope, he'd likely meet his end at Ody's hands.
- He thought it'd be a good idea to demand Telemachus to open his mother's room so he and the suitors could rape her, even though he could have easily done it himself or broke into the room to assault her instead.
- He tried to kill Telemachus right when Athena was witnessing the brawl between the two, allowing her to take the opportunity to give the young prince on fighting back and standing up for himself, leading Antinous to lose the upper hand and get taken by surprise due to Telemachus uppercutting him and delivering several brutal blows.
- He planned to wait on the beach for Telemachus to return to Ithaca from his mission so he and the suitors could hop on his ship and pin him down as Antinous slowly kills him and throws his mutilated body parts into the ocean, although anyone could've seen from afar.
- He sings to the suitors about his plan to lead an inhumane gangrape on Penelope when Odysseus was in the palace and even listened to his song, allowing him to kill Antinous by shooting an arrow at his neck and end his life on impact. This means he caused his own death, which was very avoidable in all honesty.
Poseidon[]
- His ideology about how "ruthlessness is mercy upon oneself" is inherently pointless, as while being ruthless is necessary in some situations, it can definitely be a bad thing if taken way too far. Compared to Odysseus who is only ruthless when he's out of options, Poseidon is always violent, aggressive and erratic despite the harm it could do to him in the process.
- He killed most of Ody's crew when he could've easily killed all the men present instead, which gives Ody a chance to open the bag to get the surviving crewmates to safety, which is not what Poseidon wanted.
- When rejecting Ody's offer of redemption, he unleashes his ultimate move that nearly kills him, but he didn't know Ody still had the bag on him (which he had previously used to save the lives of his fellow men who weren't killed by Poseidon), allowing him to open it and survive his near-death experience only to turn into a ruthless monster that even the sea god himself is afraid of.
- Although mocking Ody about blocking his only path to Ithaca might not be stupid, it's followed up by Poseidon reminding him that he can't kill him, which gives Ody the idea to pick up his trident and impale Poseidon multiple consecutive times to coerce him into calling off the storm, leading the god to beg for mercy and panic uncontrollably until he reluctantly puts an end to the storm. In the end, Poseidon is left not dead, but badly wounded as Ody returns to his kingdom to reunite with his family, with nothing indicating he recovered from his defeat.
Polyphemus[]
- Blinded by his thirst for revenge on the people who killed his favorite sheep, he accepts Odysseus's deal to let him and his crew live if they give him the world's best-tasting wine (which actually had lotus in it), to which Polyphemus accepted without hesitation or suspicion. This would cause him to collapse as a result of his impulsiveness.
- He got outplayed by Ody and his crew, who sharpened his club into a spear which they used to rip his eye out, leaving him blind and in great pain.
- When asking the other cyclopes for help to kill Ody and his men, he thinks that "Nobody" is a viable name for someone, and he proceeds to call Ody nobody even though that is a completely dumb move on his part.
Potential Issues[]
Antinous[]
I'd like to provide this link to list all the concerns Antinous has.
Okay, seriously, he has absolutely nothing worth talking about here. He's meant to be a reminder that humans can be the real monsters, making him frighteningly realistic. Yeah, we've got Poseidon who killed hundreds of men and threatened to destroy Ithaca, Zeus who forced Ody to kill Prince Hector's baby son and encouraged him to choose between sacrificing his life or the lives of his crew, and Polyphemus who planned to devour 600 men, but here's the thing; all of them are supernatural beings, with Poseidon and Zeus being gods and Polyphemus being a large monster. Antinous, however? He's just a normal, mortal person (what he planned to do was anything BUT normal). As far as the scale of his crimes goes, he may have only one attempted murder and one attempted rape...but what makes him exceptional is the quality of those acts. For his murder of Telemachus, he makes it clear that he was going to slit his throat, cut him into little pieces, put his remains in bags and throw them into the ocean so nobody can find them. As for his rape of Penelope, he didn't just try to rape her...he was going to lead a 108-men gangrape on her. That makes him disgusting, even by the heinous standard of the musical.
Any redeeming qualities? HELL NAH! He only wants to marry Penelope for the sake of ruling Ithaca and was clearly plotting to sexually assault her, has no care for the suitors (with there even being light implications that he was going to kill all the men later on) and there's nothing comedic or sympathetic about his characterization. Everything he does is played for utter seriousness and horror, and he's nothing more than a sadistic, envious and disrespectful love rival who is beyond redemption and has no chance of changing whatsoever. So, nothing. Really, the only good thing about him is the fact that Ayron Alexander is a good addition to the cast.
Poseidon[]
Now for the more complex character: Poseidon. I'll admit, he's got a lot going on, but I'll do my best to debunk the potential arguments against him.
First up is his relationship with Polyphemus. Now, I know that he genuinely cares for his son and wanted to avenge his pain by making Ody suffer, with him demanding an apology from the man for blinding Polyphemus before slaughtering most of Ody's crew right in front of him, saying "I am your darkest moment" which is what Ody said to Polyphemus as he hurt him, and threatening to mutilate Telemachus' eye as part of an "eye for an eye" ordeal to make Ody understand what it feels like to have a blinded son like him. However, this is just care for a single person, so it's not too preventing. And while he obviously very much wants to punish Ody for harming Polyphemus, he straight-up nonchalantly remarks that he could have avoided their personal beef had he just killed the cyclops, making his redeeming quality less of an issue to be honest. Then, there's the fact that his care for Polyphemus is just a part of his motivation, given he is mostly motivated by his pride that was damaged by Ody not killing his son, so while it would be incorrect to say Poseidon doesn't care about his son, it's still a minor but still genuine redeeming quality at the end of the day.
Next, he has this whole "ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" ideology. Now, I know what y'all are thinking. "But Yomi, this is a traditionally card-carrying trait for a villain to have! How can it prevent him from counting?" Well, hear me out here; EPIC: The Musical is a dark and grim world filled with all sorts of morally gray and questionable characters who really put their emotions and hearts to the side to survive in the cruel world of Ancient Greece due to how many vile and vicious figures are present. Be it protecting someone you love or making a decision for the greater good, it's not always hopeful and optimistic like Polites makes it out to be. However, Ody only commits grey-zoned heinous acts out of orange-and-blue morality since he was extremely hesitant to murder an infant (even living with the guilt for life), had to unwillingly sacrifice six of his men to Zeus to see his wife and son again, and killed the sirens and suitors as they were dangerous, so those acts had understandable and good intentions behind them. As for Poseidon, many of his crimes are motivated by pride and spite as he drowned 540 of Ody's men just for not killing his son and encouraged him to commit suicide or else he would flood Ithaca and kill everyone in the kingdom, including Penelope and Telemachus (both of whom Ody love deeply). So, while ruthlessness is needed in some situations, it's not always warranted and can occasionally backfire and cause problems for oneself, which is what happens with Poseidon as he gets brutally tortured by an angry Ody who nearly throws his ideologies right back in his face if not for the god calling off the storm, albeit for pragmatic reasons. So, not preventing.
Lastly, there's the "I can't" moment. That is his response to Ody saying that it's been 10 years since their feud began and they should just call it quits as they're both hurting from personal losses. This gives Poseidon a moment to pause and utter that he can't move on in a genuinely distraught tone. This isn't preventing because it's less him wanting to redeem himself and more admitting to not wanting his son's suffering to go unavenged. While the music does get briefly sad in this part of "Get In The Water", any sympathy is more placed on Ody's part as he knows neither him or Poseidon are satisfied by their grudge against each other and he just wants the god to leave him alone and let him go home by making up with each other, and when he tries to convince Poseidon to learn forgiveness, the latter goes back to being his usual angry self and violently attacks Ody, almost killing him if not for him opening the bag to save himself. Even if Poseidon is treated with a smidge of pathos here, it's definitely not too much as the son he is trying to avenge is a bloodthirsty cyclops who wanted to kill hundreds of men over the death of one of his countless sheep, so he's not meant to be relatable or empathized with.
All in all, he's fine.
Polyphemus[]
And finally, we have Polyphemus to talk about. Well...he does have a degree of fondness for one of his sheep, calling it his favorite one and trying to kill Ody and his crew over its death as a means to avenge said sheep. However, much like with Poseidon going on a ruthless mission to avenge his son's pain, this is just care for one person (or should I say sheep), so it's far from too preventing for him to count. That's all he has in terms of redeeming qualities...but there are either things I should address.
Number one: sympathy. Dude's basically a shepherd who lost one of his many sheep and eventually gets his eye gouged out and is left unable to see anything for the rest of his life. However, not only does he have a higher kill count than the original version of the character (between 7-15 if I recall correctly), but trying to kill tons of people is petty when you take into consideration that most of the people he was willing to kill had nothing to do with his sheep's death. As for his defeat...he had it coming, all things considered. He's a wild, maniacal and erratic madman who had to be put down for his own sake. What doesn't help is that it's heavily implied he was already evil before his "tragedy" took place, with Ody implying that he has devoured several people before the events of the Cyclops Saga.
Number two: honor. While he was hellbent on killing Ody and his crew, he wanted to make the leader himself the last victim of his. But I disagree this is redeeming because it's not done out of a desire to pay back the drink Ody gave him. Rather, it's meant to be a method of mockery and he wasn't going to spare Ody either way. It's not like he respects the man or anything, so this doesn't hold up in the slightest.
Number three: his relationship with Poseidon and the cyclopes. Sure, he does ask them for help, but the type of bond he has with his father isn't explored in much detail. Granted, Poseidon is established to care for his son due to wanting to get revenge on Ody for blinding and hurting him, but Polyphemus isn't shown to love his father or have any interactions with him beyond telling him that Ody revealed his name after ripping his eye out. As for the cyclopes, nothing implies he sees them as friends beyond asking them for simple help, so pass.
Number four: remorse. I don't even know why I have to address this potential factor, but I'm going to cover it regardless. According to Ody, Polyphemus is apparently "struck with remorse when he kills and is up in the middle of the night". But, this is just his speculation which isn't given much weight beyond simple theorizing. Even then, Ody suggests that Polyphemus is satisfied with the measures he has resorted to in order to avenge his favorite sheep's death, which is more likely than him regretting his actions. So, that's out of the question.
So, he's got nothing other than his care for his sheep, which is a pretty minor prevention in the grand scheme of things.
Final Verdict[]
I'll give a slight yes to Antinous, a weak yes to Poseidon and an easy yes to Polyphemus, but really, it's up to y'all. Thanks for reading and have an epic day! Epic? Geddit? Ah shit, those songs are stuck in my head...